Long Article on GM Spying on Its Cars’ Drivers
Kashmir Hill has a really good article on how GM tricked its drivers into letting it spy on them—and then sold that data to insurance companies.
Comments
noname • April 26, 2024 11:38 AM
Heard about this story on the Clark Howard podcast.
Clark: “And as I predicted, when I talked about it, I said GM is going to stop doing it and GM is going to get sued for it.
Bam, bam, both things have happened already.”
Clark also talks about homeowner insurers doing AI-based scans of homes.
L-A-R-A • April 26, 2024 11:49 AM
noname, be sure to read GM’s statements carefully. They said they’d stop collecting the “driving data”, and would cut ties with two specific brokers. They also said’d they’d “evaluate” the situation or something similarly vague.
GM did not promise never to re-start such collection and/or sale. They didn’t promise never to re-create ties with those brokers, or create ties with others. They haven’t done or promised to do anything at all about the location-data being implicitly shared with the cellular providers via OnStar’s constant not-really-optional connection (if you don’t like it, look online for how to remove the fuse; and note that some of the minor systems, they might go off, but it’s nothing to worry about, it’s just a simple thing).
Ardie • April 26, 2024 12:04 PM
Doesn’t require your vehicle to accomplish this.
Your phone sure seems like a whore on its back for speed, acceleration (including high speed cornering, and hard braking), exact location of speeding, failing to stop, holding your phone / texting while driving, distracted by your unrestrained dog…
This can be aggregated over years before they turn you in. Imagine having your vehicle impounded and your driver license taken away because you don’t feel compelled to use a farday bag. This amazon one seems to work for me: ‘…com/dp/B0CNV7YVVB/ref=
Brownie points will always be lucrative in a police state. Your neighbor isn’t your neighbor, he’s business as usual. You can be crucified years from now for your transgressions by a very rich AI cop.
Its coming. Stay home. Plant a garden. Save the planet.
“because you showed them everything, it will all be taken and your kids will be castrated slaves” -Isaiah
Sofa • April 26, 2024 1:59 PM
Non-paywalled link to the same story:
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/gm-tricked-millions-drivers-being-175245410.html
Mr.Smith • April 26, 2024 3:50 PM
Somehow I don’t think they have a fuse just for the spying. Probably tied it into the fuel system, and anything else they could think of.
L-A-R-A • April 27, 2024 12:07 AM
Mr.Smith, you can do a search for OnStar fuse. Some people have reported no negative side effects. Some have said the rear-view mirror loses the compass and auto-dimming features, or Bluetooth stops working, etc. One person said it broke “super” cruise control, whatever that is. So, it might be annoying, but it’s not yet crippling.
ResearcherZero • April 27, 2024 1:16 AM
Collect and document the process of evidence gathering when making a claim or complaint.
Having documentation of everything you possibly can get as early as possible is essential.
If you ever have to deal with law enforcement, get everything they say in writing. Do not trust that they have performed the actions that they claim. Always pursue and ensure the documentation of witness statements and evidence collection has in fact taken place.
Any victim of crime or an accident is entitled to “prompt” receipt of an incident report.
Jon • April 27, 2024 6:09 AM
Plus, according to a report I heard yesterday, some people had their car insurance rates raised, based on the data that GM supplied to the insurance companies. So, GM’s and dealers’ mendacity directly led to higher costs for customers.
This is a step beyond the data collection of OBD-II systems, rental companies putting trackers and data gathering devices on cars, and other monitoring and reporting. If anything we need an expansion of the conception of 4th Amendment personal and civil rights.
L-A-R-A • April 27, 2024 2:25 PM
Regarding the insurance companies buying data and raising rates, I think they need to be sued over that too. And since they’ll have recent contact information for most of their victims—and GM probably has real-time location data, but let’s all act surprised when we “find out”—maybe these suits won’t end with just the lawyers getting rich.
Mr.Smith • April 27, 2024 5:37 PM
@L-A-R-A: Wait for it. And does the fuse currently take out all the spying? Or just the parts that interact with the driver?
L-A-R-A • April 27, 2024 6:03 PM
Mr.Smith, it depends what you mean by “all the spying”. I haven’t tried any of this personally, but it’s reputed to completely disable the car’s cellular communication. For example, if you crash, it won’t call 9-1-1, because it can’t. It’s likely that many car systems are still “spying”, and just unable to contact their “handlers”; and maybe some data will be exfiltrated when the car goes in for service.
And, of course, there are still the tire-pressure monitoring system (TPMS) communications, toll-road transponders, license-plate readers, the driver’s and passengers’ phones, one’s geo-tagged picture of oneself labeled “BRB, need to pop in to rob this bank”…
Amos • April 29, 2024 1:33 AM
@noname
Yea that lawsuit to GM can be useful but being a class-action lawsuit, the main beneficiaries are the lawyers. Everyone else can expect a check for $19.
@L-A-R-A
The TPMS wireless communication is interesting. Wonder if it will become obsolete with the advent of the airless tyres (Michelin Uptis, etc).
Peter A. • April 29, 2024 5:18 AM
A better solution than pulling the fuse (but a bit more complicated) would be removing the antenna and replacing it with a 30dB (or more) attenuator. Pros: all the minor systems powered by the circuit protected by that particular fuse still work, so the modification is less annoying. Cons: possible higher battery drain and loosing some useful functionality like automatic emergency calling. Of course, it depends on your personal definition of “annoying” and “useful”.
noname • April 29, 2024 9:14 AM
@Amos
Yea that lawsuit to GM can be useful but being a class-action lawsuit, the main beneficiaries are the lawyers. Everyone else can expect a check for $19.
If I was GM, I’d want to drop this over-sharing like a hot potato. Makes you wonder if they saw the backlash coming. Stock price was down on 4/19, but at a new relative high (post 2022) on 4/26.
Kashmir Hill made note of “10 federal lawsuits filed in the last month”.
A Georgia lawsuit lists out various classes of damages, including “statutory damages of not less than $100 for every violation of TCCWNA.” (New Jersey’s Truth in Consumer Contract, Warranty and Notice Act). We’ll see.
Pipo • May 2, 2024 3:14 PM
“Customer trust is a priority for us, and we are showing that in our actions”
No, the trust is broken and this a first step of regaining it.
phranq s'0ra • May 2, 2024 5:51 PM
GM you can bug my car
Yes I’m gonna be OnStar
GM you can bug my car
And maybe I sue you
Scan-scan scan-scan yeah !
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Q • April 26, 2024 7:25 AM
Note: The article “requires” JS to see more than just the first few paragraphs.