Saturday Conversation: Mark Knopfler, ‘I’m A Songwriter First’

Since coming on the scene as the frontman of iconic U.K. band Dire Straits in 1977, Mark Knopfler has been viewed, deservedly, as a guitar icon. From their first hit, the top ten song, “Sultans Of Swing,” Knopfler established himself as one of music’s top guitarists, someone whose prowess was so great he was named the twenty-seventh best guitarist in music by Rolling Stone.

However, in talking to Knopfler about his tunning new collection, the gorgeous and intellectual One Deep River, he is very clear about the fact he sees himself as a songwriter first. As he says, being a songwriter is different than being a musician.

In fact, when discussing the possibility of touring for this album, Knopfler sadly says he believes his touring days are behind him. Although it might be sad for his fans, for Knopfler, he views it as more time to focus on his writing.

I spoke with him about when he realized I was a songwriter first and a musician second, the new album, his friendship and fandom of Bonnie Raitt, his favorite Beatles song and much more.

Steve Baltin: How is it in London today?

Mark Knopfler: It’s always good in London.

Baltin: Was there one song that really jumpstarted the idea of doing this album?

Knopfler: I think “One Deep River” itself made me think it was going places. So, I think “One Deep River” itself came out pretty well and the seeds were started, for me, for a lot of the record. Also, it can apply, I’m not going to say it applies to one person or it’s not a message to anybody. It can be whatever you’d like it to be. I found with the songs in the past if I try to get specific, I find you can be moving away from it just as fast as you can be moving towards it. I don’t even see it as being about anybody specific or anything specific.

Baltin: Nick Cave talks in his book, Faith, Hope & Carnage about how he’ll be on stage a year after writing a song and realize what the song is about. Have you had that experience?

Knopfler: (Laughing) Oh sure. You think you’re so smart, “That’s right. What is it that we’re really talking about here?” I’m always ready for that one and always ready to acknowledge there are things going on with us that we don’t necessarily have to acknowledge at the time. How great that we don’t know, don’t you think?

Baltin: Yes, I do agree. Are there songs of yours that you go back and look at over the years that you hear differently or now understand in new ways?

Knopfler; Oh yeah, probably. I don’t pretend to have all the answers at all myself. I’m just the guy who wrote it. I think it’s added to the wonderment, being the songwriter because I think I came to that reasonably late. First of all, you start to think of yourself as a guitar player of sorts, and then the songwriter. I just came to all these things gradually. I didn’t go around telling all these people, “I’m a songwriter!” I’ve come to realize the songwriter is different from a musician and that’s fine. I’m just a guy who gets stuck with that, I’ll take it. I’m the songwriter and all I’m trying to do is write a good song hopefully. That’s all I want to do and hopefully it’ll come off and you’ll be able to make a good record of it. That’s all I want to do. It’s pretty simple really. The process, by the way, is wonderful. The band is wonderful, it’s the high point. Songwriting is totally solitary, for me. So, it’s a wonderful time when everybody is in the room. Of course, this time we had Greg Leeds along and it was lovely having Greg. It was as if he had been with us for many years. We all talked about that, including Greg. We had a lovely time with Greg. That was a blessed little time and it’s not a long time you have with the band. Thankfully the band being as good as they are, they caught on pretty quickly and I don’t have to work very hard. It’s like a director being given a stellar cast of characters to make a film with. They’re just there to make everything better, make everything live, make the words on the page really live. It’s not a very different thing. Also, they don’t need much direction. I certainly never feel as if I have to tell people in this band what to do. That’s part of the joy of it as well.

Baltin: Will you be touring with this band?

Knopfler: No, I don’t think I will. I think I’ve come to the end of that particular road. What that means is I’ll be looking forward to having more time to write. Because I’ve always tried to write on the road and to write late nights in hotel rooms and I’m looking forward to being able to spend a bit more time at home. That’s been a little more kind to the people around me. Physically, touring wasn’t getting any easier. So, I have to say, I think I’ll be better off and making better work by staying home a bit more.

Baltin: Are there aspects of touring you will miss?

Knopfler: It did get harder, but I love touring. Don’t get me wrong. If you’re playing in ancient Rome in the ruins and you see one of those stadiums full of people on their feet going bananas, it’s a wonderful thing. The tour is full of memories like that for me. It was a great way to end. Actually, we ended at Madison Square Garden with Bonnie Raitt opening for us and it was a lovely way to finish.

Baltin: Tough to beat that. It’s one of the most famous venues in the world and Bonnie is an amazing person. Adore her.

Knopfler: Me too. I’ve known her for years, from the very first time we came to the States Bonnie and I were linked up. So, yes, we go back a fair way and it was delightful to be able to finish the tour there. She always makes me laugh. She said, “Your band sounds so great, you made us sound like we were doing the music for wrestling.” I said, “What on earth are you talking about, girl?” (Laughs) She’s just fantastic. I’ve always loved Bonnie. Of course, I loved Bonnie for years before we were even known about. She was on my turntable for a long time before the band was even heard of.

Baltin: That is a fairy-tale ending. No way could you have imagined when you’re starting out with Dire Straits in 1977 that you would end your touring career that way almost 50 years later.

Knopfler; Yeah, exactly that (laughs). But of course, you never think you’re any better than anybody else so when you say opening up, music is not a question of that. But it was lovely to be in the same building as Bonnie.

Baltin: Going back to something you said earlier, at what point did you realize you were the songwriter?

Knopfler: It became a gradual thing. I suppose obviously I was influenced by the greats, Bob Dylan and Randy Newman, people like that. I went in the right direction, I think, because of that. I suppose when I realized if I wasn’t playing a guitar, it wouldn’t bother me. The whole thing of practicing an instrument, the guys in the band would get their identity from their instruments and their relationship with their instruments. I, pretty soon, was thinking in terms of songs. I was thinking in terms of where I was with the songs. So, when I was working with Bob Dylan, for instance, or people like that, I’d see them with their songs, their relationship with their songs, and I’d realize I was the same. That if I was working on a song it wouldn’t be so much to do with my instrument. Now it’s happened even more. I don’t know if it’s whether it’s because of the pandemic or what, but not having quite the same relationship. I do have a lovely relationship with the guitar. It’s a very personal thing, and it’s an intimate thing. But, to me, where I am with the songs is more interesting. The guitar just goes on forever and there are people who play fantastically well. That’s wonderful, but my thing is, if anything, with the guitar it’s become more simple. And my relationship with song has become more complex in the sense that through simplicity, I see more value in “You are My Sunshine” as a song. I see more value in that kind of simplicity as a writer.

Baltin: From a writing standpoint I am a huge Raymond Carver fan.

Knopfler: Me too.

Baltin: He was the master of simplicity. From a songwriting standpoint, I think John Lennon was like that. I always say you look at a song like “In My Life” and it feels like something anyone could write, but only John Lennon did.

Knopfler: That is one of my favorite Beatles songs. I think I played it before as my favorite. Exactly, the overwhelming simplicity of it. As you say, “If it’s so easy, you write it.”

Baltin: Are there songs on One Deep River that you go back to and are pleased with that simplicity?

Knopfler: Yeah, “One Deep River” itself does that. And it’s not the only one. Also, even if you’ve got a complex setup, in the sane that you are in a character, another character doing something else in the song, the story is pretty simple to follow. It’s not too convoluted and too difficult, I hope, for people to be able to identify with. Being a songwriter is not like being a musician. It’s not the same and I’ve gotten used to that. I’ll send a song to the band because I’ll have written it at home or on the road. The song appears in front of me with me playing it on the guitar.