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Microsoft Operating Systems Software Windows

Windows 10's 'Sets' Feature Is Gone and Not Expected To Return (zdnet.com) 81

Posted by BeauHD from the rest-in-peace dept.
Sets, one of two new features teased in 2017 to be coming to Windows 10, has reportedly been scrubbed. "Microsoft dropped plans for Sets, a Windows-management feature, which would have allowed users to group app data, websites and other information in tabs, months ago," reports ZDNet, citing their sources. "Although Microsoft did test Sets last year with some of its Windows Insider testers, the feature generally wasn't well received or understood. For apps like Office to work well with Sets, the Office engineering team was going to have to do a lot of extra work." From the report: Sets didn't make an reappearance in the Insider test builds leading up to the May 2019 Update/1903, and officials haven't mentioned the Sets feature in months. Over the weekend, Microsoft Senior Program Manager Rich Turner tweeted "The Shell-provided tab experience is no more, but adding tabs is high on our to do list." (That's likely the closest we will get to an "official" comment on the future of the Sets feature.)

Turner pointed to a Devblogs.Microsoft.com post originally dated June 29 about tabs coming to the Windows Console. At that point in time, the Console team was planning to use the new Sets feature as the base for adding Tabs in the Windows Console. But since the Windows team has decided against moving forward with Sets, the Console team is now going to have to build Tabs into the Console without using Sets as the foundation, my sources say.
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Windows 10's 'Sets' Feature Is Gone and Not Expected To Return More

Windows 10's 'Sets' Feature Is Gone and Not Expected To Return

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  • It's been a long time since anything positive has happened in the UI world. Organising Apps based on certain workloads into tabs rather than having to splatter them over virtual desktops would have been very nice. I do wonder how shit like the Metro UI gets developed while potentially good stuff like the earlier teasers of Sets gets canned.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I do wonder how shit like the Metro UI gets developed while potentially good stuff like the earlier teasers of Sets gets canned.

      With extreme prejudice.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by vyvepe ( 809573 )

      Organising Apps based on certain workloads into tabs rather than having to splatter them over virtual desktops would have been very nice.

      A tilling window manager will give you this and much more. Though I do not know whetter there is one for Win10.

      • You should be able to do that even with, say, Fluxbox. At least I remember doing that like decade or two ago.

    • Re:This is a shame (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @06:39AM (#58476222) Journal

      It's been a long time since anything positive has happened in the UI world.

      Why should a GUI be exciting? I want a GUI to be boring and predictable so that I can focus my creativity and mental resources into the project as opposed to the OS condescending to me and changing where things are for a "freshen up".

      Workspaces are the most exciting thing that has happened to the Windows GUI and it is copied directly from Linux desktops like gnome. Workspaces seem to have gotten less functional on linux since the closed crowd took the idea. Win10 has mangled workspaces until it is almost completely unusable, at least they are there though so there is probably some scope to write some improvements to make life easier.

      Workspaces are *the* most exciting, practical and, useful thing that has happened to the Windows UI for a very long time.

      • Yes, Windows finally got virtual desktops in Win10, and they've actually managed to degrade their usability in later versions. So damn annoying.

      • Why should a GUI be exciting?

        Who said anything about exciting? I said positive. And from all early things I've seen on sets it ticked all of your boxes. You could choose not to use it, or you could use it consistently across apps.

        Workspaces are the most exciting

        Why should a GUI be exciting?

        Workspaces are *the* most exciting, practical and, useful thing that has happened to the Windows UI for a very long time.

        I'm glad you like it. I don't. I would like to be able to organise what I'm working on in categorical windows, and not literally hide them away from my desktop in their own little world. Mind you I do use Workspaces, and I would have used it in very different scenarios than I would

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrKaos ( 858439 )

          Why should a GUI be exciting?

          Who said anything about exciting? I said positive. And from all early things I've seen on sets it ticked all of your boxes. You could choose not to use it, or you could use it consistently across apps.

          Well I checked out sets [windows.com] and they look like a poorly thought out attempt at replacing workspaces.

          Workspaces are the most exciting

          Why should a GUI be exciting?

          So that you rush out and buy it.

          Workspaces are *the* most exciting, practical and, useful thing that has happened to the Windows UI for a very long time.

          I'm glad you like it. I don't. I would like to be able to organise what I'm working on in categorical windows, and not literally hide them away from my desktop in their own little world. Mind you I do use Workspaces, and I would have used it in very different scenarios than I would have used sets.

          Do you put every Chrome tab on a different virtual desktop? They are different organisational methods for different purposes.

          I think if you've been a windows user for a long time, as opposed to being a Linux user for a long time, how you organise work will be very different. I don't have a different workspace per chrome tab however I do have browsers with different content aligned with the task I am doing.

          If you don't like w10 workspaces it is probably because it is a poor implementation of linux wor

    • Re:This is a shame (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @08:28AM (#58476560)

      Over the past few decades, of software development, there were numerous features that I have made, that were well documented, tested and even well received. However never used, despite being a requirement. While a slow clumsy UI that I hobbled together at the last minute just to get something usable, is one of the most famous features, which if it goes down there is hell to pay.

      The problem with Sets, is that only technical people who have been trained in programming and engineering seem to like it, because we have been trained to categorize, and abstract information.

      People will always make their work more complex then it needs to be, mainly because the simpler approach often requires a little forward thinking. When I see them do their normal workflow, I see them manually doing very repetitive tasks, and get annoyed when I bring up automating those steps, because there is a 1 out a hundred occurrence that there is something different, which you can work around, or fall back to the manual steps for that process.

      • Re:This is a shame (Score:4, Interesting)

        by azcoyote ( 1101073 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @09:42AM (#58476900)

        Very true. It reminds me of how, when my wife planned training conferences twice a year, she had trouble getting the older employees to let her do a simple mail merge. When sending out letters to all of the attendees, instead of letting the computer print the specific sessions for which they were registered, these people insisted on printing a standard sheet, going through a list, and highlighting the sessions by hand. It took several hours each time, because they were terrified of a twenty-minute mail merge.

        On a related note, it is true that robots and automation in general threaten to remove human jobs, but at the same time there are plenty of jobs that people essentially create for themselves through stubborn inefficiency. I'm always baffled at how much time other people spend chit-chatting or doing things inefficiently while I squeeze every free minute I can to do actual work.

        • >other people spend chit-chatting or doing things inefficiently while I squeeze every free minute I can to do actual work

          Relax. Enjoy some human interaction.

          • Actually I have seen the opposite to be true, because they are doing something so inefficient, they are putting their nose to the grindstone, because they have an impossible deadline, while I am the one who may be bugging them, because I did my share in 5 minutes. Because I got the computer to do the work.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          there are plenty of jobs that people essentially create for themselves through stubborn inefficiency. I'm always baffled at how much time other people spend chit-chatting or doing things inefficiently while I squeeze every free minute I can to do actual work.

          Like texting back and forth for half an hour trying to reach a consensus that could have been achieved with a 90-second (or less) phone call.

          • Pro Tip: Do it your way. Then have them OK your output. On the average you will be wasting less time, doing something, and a small chance of having to do it twice, then trying to get them to agree on a method.

            Most people lack the imagination to get something done. Conscious often means they picked a solution where the biggest mouth/highest ranking individual makes their stance clear, or a compromise where everyone is equally unhappy.

            Do it your way, if it is wrong (chances are if you know how to do your j

      • The problem with Sets, is that only technical people who have been trained in programming and engineering seem to like it, because we have been trained to categorize, and abstract information.

        That's not a problem for an OS feature that fundamentally doesn't need to be used. Go ask random people about Windows 10's virtual desktop feature. They'll probably pull out their mace say "get away from me you weirdo".

        I responded to someone else up above who seems to love sets. Me ... I rarely use it, but I'm happy to know it's there.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Most UI changes are just rearranging the furniture because some wannabe designer thinks he/she can do "better". Users hate that.

    • Re:This is a shame (Score:4, Interesting)

      by beuges ( 613130 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @10:15AM (#58477060)

      Tabs are really bad for productivity because you have to keep switching between them, instead of being able to position multiple windows around the screen and see them all at the same time.

      What they should have done was leverage off Virtual Desktops to be able to save a Virtual Desktop configuration so the same applications open whenever you load up that Desktop. So I could have a VD configuration for Admin which automatically loads up mail, accounting package, etc, a second configuration for Dev Project 1 which opens up Visual Studio with the right projects loaded, SQL Server Management Studio to the right DB connection, documentation in Word or whatever, then a separate configuration for Dev Project 2 which opens its own set of apps.

      The Virtual Desktop becomes the app workload grouping, and the taskbar becomes the tab control. The only thing they needed to add was the ability to save the VD state or configure a new one, and they'd have a much better solution that users wouldn't be confused by. And users would be able to interact with their apps in the same way they're used to already, instead of being forced into a tab-centric workflow.

      • Tabs are really bad for productivity because you have to keep switching between them

        That depends entirely on what your productive purpose is. Do you open a new window for every Slashdot thread? Do you currently have 50+ windows open? Do you typically need to see all your content at the same time at all times?

        Sets was not meant to be a tabbed full desktop (that's what the task bar is for). It allowed you to group like minded things when you needed to. It is no less productive than tabs on a browser is, but it appeared to be a shitload more universal. All in all I feel like I would have foun

        • Now virtual desktops on the other hand are really bad for productivity.

          Really? Is this like a scientific fact or something?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by beuges ( 613130 )

          I open new sites in tabs, because I read one site at a time, and that occupies my focus. However, if I'm working on a dev project, I will probably want to see documentation, source code, and have a console window open all at the same time. I would probably want my browser to be visible while my terminal is open so I can type out commands from the stackoverflow page I'm referencing. All of these apps are related to the project that I'm working on, and I want to see them all at the same time because I'm acces

    • No - this is trying to recreate the worst part of ChromeOS.

    • I do wonder how shit like the Metro UI gets developed while potentially good stuff like the earlier teasers of Sets gets canned.

      Metro is a bad implementation that ignores history, but it doesn't invalidate the concept of ever-simpler UI. Lots of users were confused even by the classic MacOS, and a one-button mouse. Android and iOS offer the fundamentally similar, highly simplified interfaces that they do with good reason. There are plenty of times when a simple interface makes the most sense — it's not all cellphones and GPS units, there's also bathroom mirrors, automotive interfaces, and so on.

      IMO what they should be working

    • > I do wonder how shit like the Metro UI gets developed while potentially good stuff like the earlier teasers of Sets gets canned.

      The same thing happened at Apple. Happily, many of these ideas eventually came to light years later.

      I was at WWDC when they talked about "data detectors". This would notice key data and let you click on it in any app to run another process that would be handed that data. So you could be in Word, see a phone number, click it, and an app would run and call it. It also noticed e

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )
      Yea, Microsoft is not doing well getting big changes actually rolled out. Anyone remember WinFS? Anyway, if you do want the Sets feature Stardock has a version called Groupy for $5.

  • And nothing of value was lost (Score:3)

    by Errol backfiring ( 1280012 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @06:05AM (#58476148) Journal

    the feature generally wasn't well received or understood.

    So it must have been something like the "where-has-the-menu-item-hidden-this-time" office bar.

    • Re:And nothing of value was lost (Score:4, Interesting)

      by MrKaos ( 858439 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @06:29AM (#58476192) Journal

      So it must have been something like the "where-has-the-menu-item-hidden-this-time" office bar.

      I resisted an upgrade to win10 for as long as I could until it had settled down. Generally the windows upgrade experience is exactly as you describe and very very tedious. Linux upgrade, when I commit to a new LTS is restoring my home directory when the upgrade is complete and most things are configured how I like it.

      I don't care about being an early adopter of tech anymore as it inevitably is buggy. I suggested to our IT department that I use ubuntu instead and they told me I *have* to use windows despite me not seeing a single bit of software that required it.

      • I have the good fortune to work for a sane company (at least after a change in management); I am permitted to run Linux (Debian in this case, but any distro would've worked) as my host OS, virtualizing the machine's OEM install, and doing almost all of my heavier Windows work via remote desktop to a more powerful machine.

        If your machine supports a second hard drive, might consider popping the suggestion of installing a Linux distro on the now-primary disk, leaving the original and its restore partition in

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MrKaos ( 858439 )

          Once I'm done setting the W10 I'll set up Debian on the old machine. It's still a reasonable piece of gear an I looked after it. T series laptops are well supported by Linux, so I'll get to use it as a presentation layer and test to see where the holes are in our org.

      • Failing the other suggestion, might request permission to simply run Linux in a VM for things they don't require you to use Windows.

      • despite me not seeing a single bit of software that required it.

        The software you use is completely irrelevant. The question is one of support. IT support at any organisation is a process of whitelisting starting with if IT (not the end user) is able to do something.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by antdude ( 79039 )

        Me too. I used to love to get the (new/lat)est stuff, but not anymore. Too buggy, slow, bloated, no time, etc. I'm OK if I got paid like for work. I still use old stable stuff even PS/2 keyboards and mice/mouses, VGA, DVI, OmniCube KVM from Y2K, 3.5mm audio cables, analog audio stuff, etc.

  • Reminds me of (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    that database filesystem. Too hard to do.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by MrKaos ( 858439 )

      IIRC AS400 does DB2 as an FS

    • Too hard? It shouldn't be when you are as big as Microsoft with thousands of programmers you can devote to it. I built one myself (an object store where you can put 100 million files, tag everything, and find anything and everything based on those tags in under a second), but it took me awhile. Still working on it, but it is a fun project. I got tired of waiting for Microsoft, Apple, or someone else to build it.

  • Ohwow (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Wow, they're going to have to add tabs to their shitty terminal emulator? Oh gosh such innovation I'm blinded by the intensity.

  • good to hear that they will not go through with this as almost none of their testers could make use of it or found it too confusing.
    nobody needs yet another useless windows feature that will take up resources for nothing.

  • It a typical MS and business pracitce. (Score:3)

    by 3seas ( 184403 ) on Tuesday April 23, 2019 @07:56AM (#58476432) Homepage Journal

    Its called market testing and is not the first time and will not be the last time MS does it.

  • I wouldn't know. Despite getting insider builds, including those where sets and tabs were supposed to be available, it never worked. In those builds where I at least saw the option to turn them on in settings, it was never anything but grayed out. I got them to work briefly by using some 3rd party tool, but there was a new build almost immediately after, wherein it was again broken.

    I was looking forward to tabs.

  • SETS! S-E-T-S! You got that? That's what we're giving up on! Next question, please!

  • Stardock has a Windows add-on called Groupy https://www.stardock.com/produ... [stardock.com] that does the same thing. I had thought about getting it, but figured I'd wait for Sets. Guess I can stop waiting.

    I don't understand why the Word team would have any problem with this feature, as I thought it should automatically work for all application windows, like Groupy does.

    • Well, you know, Microsoft just doesn't have the resources of a big software company like Stardock to be able to create such a thing on their own. /sarcasm

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by caseih ( 160668 )

      I can only imagine the hacks and tricks that Stardock has had to do to make everything they do work in Windows over the years. Kudos to them for making it all work as well as it does in such a hostile environment!

  • Windows has never been setsy. This is just MS acknowledging this particular aspect of reality.

  • I'd be happy... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    If they just returned to the no frills interface Windows 2000 had.

  • ..testing determines it shouldn't be released.

    Companies, not even exclusively software companies, do this all the time.
  • So Microsoft still can't get a feature IBM OS2 had nearly 30 years ago and Stardock [stardock.com] has offered on Windows for years to work? Or did one of their behavioral scientists determine that users would get too much work done and thus upset the delicate balance of the universe?

  • been using them forever, not on windows though

  • Will windows ever get a tabbed File Explorer? How hard can it be? yes, there are some pretty decent third party apps, but honestly, just make it native.

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